Shay Samadi, Writing Center Tutor Alumni Profile

9/29/21 Interview with UIC Writing Center Tutor ‘17 alumna, Shay Samadi

• Pronouns: She/her/hers
• Graduated: 2017 with BA in Hispanic & Italian Studies and Biological Sciences
• Tutored: 2015-2017
• Now: transitioning from work as medical reimbursement specialist for Option Care Health, a provider of home infusion services, to work as hospice/oncology massage therapist in clinical settings

Where are you and what are you doing these days?

Right now I work totally remotely with a company who provides treatment in patients’ homes as well as ambulatory infusion centers. So what I do in my position is I’m a reimbursement specialist: I oversee patient accounts, and I work on claims that have been denied. So, anything that may require appeals to the patient’s medical insurance. That entails a lot of supporting documentation and evidence for medical records and a lot of notations. So a lot of writing is involved which I definitely carried with me after UIC–I help make sure the patients have their treatment, and its ultimately paid by their insurance.

I didn’t even know this role existed! Knowing how difficult it is to get insurance to pay out sometimes, having you there as that kind of mediator or navigator seems super important. Is that something you knew you wanted to do or how did you evolve into that position?

I evolved into that position. To backtrack, how I was able to learn about this job was actually through LinkedIn. So, I put up my professional profile and was looking for ways to work in the medical field, with patients directly or indirectly. Through LinkedIn, I was connected with a staffing agency, and they helped match me with this company. [From there] I was able to learn about the job description, eventually interviewed for it, and was offered the position. I was the first of many people to be trained in this type of position. And from there I acclimated to do this type of work where I’m appealing claims for patients, which is something I haven’t done before that. That’s not something you learn in school, obviously, [but] because I had a strong proficiency in writing, thankfully, I was able to [make a lot of most my background] to get reimbursement for the treatments that we provided our patients.

So it almost sounds like you’re using writing to be persuasive and advocate on behalf of patients?

That’s very true, but we have to provide, you know, like a cover page or a statement and rationale as well as providing medical records and existing documentation to show medical necessity for the treatment that was provided.

I am wondering also, when you talk about learning of the company through LinkedIn, was this right out of undergrad or had you had some transitional experience between undergrad and the job?

So I’ve had a little bit more life experience before that because my mom ended up getting sick– I may have shared that with you before. She was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, so after I graduated I was actually taking care of my mom for a year. And then, once things were more settled, and my sister was able to take care of her, then I was able to start working, to kind of get my foot back into the professional sector. And thankfully I was able to do this job. I’ve absolutely loved my job since then and love knowing that healthcare is where I want to be.

I wanted to ask you–how your mom is doing?

My mom did end up passing away in August 2019. So pretty much before the pandemic. It’s been a lot of changes because my dad, from that time, wanted us to move from the old house–lots of memories. And now we’re living in our current home. We actually closed on this house just a week before Illinois went into lockdown. And so we spent most of the time during lockdown moving, and thankfully I was able to work from home. Our company was one of the first to deploy our employees back home and see how that transition worked; I was one of the first teams to start working from home. So I’m really thankful to be in this company who’s so driven in terms of the safety of not only our patients but also its employees. Great cultural diversity, great support from the company–overall, I’ve never felt so much support from a company, or the corporate healthcare world, and I’ve just been very fortunate.

It sounds like culture of the company is one that was a really good fit. Did you know that in advance, or was it something you had to just kind of feel out once you were in the job? How does someone learn is this going to be a good fit for me in terms of the values of the company or the kind of people I work with, do you think?

[I recommend] research[ing] a company beforehand, whether it’s looking at reviews on Glassdoor or talking to people who currently work for the company in the department that you’d be interested in. So [before I joined the] company I researched about the company values, as well as what they do and the department I’d be applying for, and even though it was to the staff agency who helped also match me in the process, I also did my due diligence to know, okay, who are they matching me with? And over time, of course when I decided to accept the offer for the job, I become acclimated to the work, understood the dynamic of our teams and in relation to management. Maybe in a company that’s already big, there’s already existing dynamics and standards, but I was actually starting in a company that was making a lot of changes. I’ve been with them since they grew and they ended up [going through a merger], and we’ve become a very large national home infusion therapy company, so it’s been a journey. Working in this company that’s gone through so much growth and change is very rewarding. Yeah, I think it’s been a great experience to be a part of that.

How big is your team now within your department? How many of you do the work that you do?

So I work in the billing center remotely, it’s actually the main one in the entire country. So the one I’m part of, there’s, let’s say, ballpark, 100-120 or so of us.

I suppose now, as you say, it’s a national company and people are all working remotely, the idea of who are my colleagues is a little more fluid, right? Like it may not be that they’re office mates but you might be interacting with lots of people through email or databases or something like that. I’m curious what is it like for you, working from home? What are other things about it that you really like, and what are the things about it that are challenging? Do you miss a sense of colleagues or do you feel like you’re still getting that in some way?

I feel like I’m still getting a sense of being with my colleagues. I’ve been very comfortable with working remotely. When we did start off in the office, they couldn’t imagine our position to go remote. But when it was forced in that direction because it was necessary to, once the transition took place, productivity shot up, obviously, because people weren’t taking vacations or anything and more work was getting done, because there was less commuting. And it was more cost-effective, and there was so many positive outcomes, because everyone transitioned to working from home. I’ve liked it because I don’t need to commute, I don’t need to spend my money on gas, but rather I can focus on work without any external stressors, because I can simply open my laptop, log on, and be responsible. And just continue to work as I would do in the same way in the office anyway.

You said that you and your family had a little bit of transition after you lost your mom. I’m really sorry to hear that and I can imagine that there’s a long period of grief for you as her primary caretaker. I understood that because you have this medical background, she really did rely on you. Did you say you have siblings or people who are going through this with you? How has that been for you and what have you done to cope or just help yourself through this?

I guess starting from the time that I was taking care of my mom. . . thankfully I’ve had history of working with, you know, people with disabilities, I’ve had a patient care volunteer experience with hospice patients. My mom ended up going to hospice, the hospice I used to work at thankfully, since I knew she would be well taken care and that it was close. It was, like, within our area. My younger sister was finishing high school at the time my mom was declining and my brother was a UIC actually studying. So once I took care of my mom I had already graduated and I just had this gap year where I got to spend time with her and take care of her, to do as much as I could for as long as possible. And you know, once she did pass, I was working my current job, so I continued to work. My sister started college, my brother had another year at UIC, and my dad, he still works. And so, you know, our cousins on my dad’s side of the family, my mom’s side of the family, like her brother’s family, is in the area–we’re all just very close and we spend a lot of time with each other. I’m just really thankful for the support I have with my family and my really close friends. Yes, it’s been a difficult, of course, life experience because of a death in the family is never going to be easy and it’s not something that’s ever going to be expected, but then it makes you realize the existing family members now that you have and how important is to be there for each other.

And you guys are living together? Are you still with your sister and brother too?

Yeah, we all live together.

What is a day in your current life like, just to give people a sense if that kind of job might be for them or not?  What kinds of tasks are you doing?

So the day in the life of someone who works as a reimbursement specialist. . . I guess to break down what that kind of position is: I work in revenue cycle management. My counterparts, they bill out medical claims based on the dates of service, the days of treatment that the patent receives.  And once that information is known, that they fill it out. Then I receive notifications electronically, because we know the status of the claims, once they go through the insurance, how they finalize. They can be paid or they can be denied. I basically take action on the ones that may either have been paid or denied. And it has to be done in a timely manner because if claims are denied, you only have a certain number of days or maybe you’d have like, a year from the day of service of that claim to be able to appeal to the insurance, stating why this should be  paid. And then, not only do I work on claims, I help with correspondences. So we receive external correspondences from the insurance reaching out to us, and I take action on those. I assist with a lot of people on my team who may work with other insurance companies to provide insight, I go through also continuing training and education. After my work, we’re always scheduled to go into different trainings so that we can continuously develop ourselves within our role. And then, we work off of many reports, So I’m directed to prioritize working reports in a certain way, so I work on reports one at a time and then I report to my supervisor what’s been completed. Every time I take an action on a claim that I’ve worked we do have to notate them into the patient’s account. So I’m writing on a constant basis., in order to follow up on whether I need to take a follow up action or whether I need to anticipate payment from the insurance because the appropriate actions were taken. Overall, every action that we take is quantified through KPIs [key performance indicators], so company metrics to reflect the results that we expect for ourselves, within our team, as well as for our company overall to drive the most optimal reimbursement so we can reinvest. Ultimately, the purpose of what we do is to reinvest that money back into providing treatments for patients. So, it goes in a circle, it’s converting every claim to be reimbursed, so that we can reinvest. So, therefore we can reinvest in the treatments to continue to provide that patients.

One question I ask everybody is to what extent does your past experience as a writing center tutor come into play in your current role? I wonder for you, how do you see that playing out? You already spoke a little bit about the amount of writing your job requires. I wonder too if there are interpersonal skills that you think you got from tutoring that are relevant, or if you’re in direct contact with patients at all? What aspects of the tutor job do you see transferring in, if any?

So definitely what I learned from working as a writing tutor is how to communicate ideas in a way that is clear and can understood by the other party as well as myself. Because I can easily understand what I’m communicating just because I can read my own mind. But it’s important that the the person who I’m speaking with understands what I’m trying to communicate. And then everything is kind of on the table. So what I loved about working with students to help with their papers is to distinguish whether the content is communicated clearly to the audience in question. Because we can put something on the paper that makes sense to us. But when someone’s reading it, how can they understand your thoughts if it may not be clearly communicated? When I appeal for the patients, I’m sending medical records and a statement to show support for why the claim should be reimbursed, and so [it’s really important that] I communicate to that audience in a clear manner or else the claim may not be reimbursed because they don’t understand what I’m appealing, for what the rationale is that I’m providing them.

That makes a lot of sense, and I imagine your audience in this case is insurance companies who may have their own agendas or rationales for trying to minimize their costs.  Was part of the learning curve about how to frame an argument to this particular audience? Do you feel like you’ve gotten some tricks or tips over time just from repetition of learning who this audience is?

I definitely had to get acclimated to the audience, because before I started working with my primary medical insurance who I now appeal to on a constant basis, I worked with other insurance first. So I feel like there’s different layers when sending the rationales to certain payers. And [now] I’ve been assigned to this payer, which is actually the largest, which holds the largest amount of money tied to claims. It ended up being under my responsibility which I’ve been thankful for, to be trusted with the responsibility. So, no pressure or anything, but it was really imperative for me to understand how I can cater to the insurance, the premise of their policies. And the reason that the claim should be reimbursed, so that it can be seen in a concise and clear manner. And because time is also of the essence. So when they’re reading my statement, [it’s critical] that my ideas are clear and cohesive and they flow, so that no one has also to reread my appeal. So therefore, they can understand what I’m providing [as evidence of medical necessity], and that the argument is strong enough for them to reconsider reimbursing the claims.

Yeah, it sounds, it sounds like the rhetorical skills are important, and learning the conventions of one payer. Apparently, it’s to your credit that you’ve been entrusted with the largest payer. That must speak to the fact that they’re very happy with your work. Is that a new level of responsibility you’ve taken on lately?

It’’s currently been ongoing sense within our team, people have kind of come and gone, but I was one of the original starters who were trained to basically go into to the current position that I am. So it’s been kind of ongoing for maybe about a year. And I actually ended up going to school also while I was working. So I went to school actually for massage therapy.

What was that like?

So it started with taking evening classes. And then, thankfully with working remotely, they allowed the flexibility for me to also go to school during the day and then log on to continue to work. I worked 40 hours from Monday to Friday, as well as going to classes in between; I made plans so I would work very long nights, but it was very worth it because I did graduate this past summer actually. So it’s something that’s very doable.

Where do you see that massage therapy going for you next? Where would you like to see that go?

I hope to work with a health care network or even specialize in hospice massage and oncology massage. I’m actually studying right now to take the licensing exam. So once I get my license, then I can take the continuing education needed to work with oncology patients. I want to do oncology massage, hospice massage, go into the clinical aspect of massage therapy because I would like to work with patients directly.

What inspired that?  Was this treatment that you saw when you were working in hospice? How did you come to that idea?

Actually, I’ve been interested in massage therapy for a very long time. [Originally, when I started college] I thought I would serve better as a doctor. However, during my college career, I learned that I have an inherited retinal disease that is caused by macular degeneration in my central vision. So over time I’m actually losing my central vision, so I won’t be as helpful as a doctor if I can’t check your eyes and ears, you know the standard, small things. So since I’ll have low vision, because I won’t go completely blind–it’s just central vision loss, thankfully, I still have my peripheries–even with low vision, I can work as a massage therapist because that’s hands-on. For my program, I actually learned to assess a client without necessarily using our eyes, and I think, for the long term, that is something I would be doing because I will be leaving my current job, as sad as I am. I’ll also training people so once I leave everyone’s acclimated and it’ll be like I never left. So I also work very responsibly at my my job to make sure everyone is also covered [after my transition out]. I’m compiling a job aid before I leave, so that people can use it as a resource if they’re facing a problem that maybe I’ve encountered–like a claim that’s been  denied– [so that they can see] different approaches I provide as suggestions on how to resolve it. But as massage therapist, I’ll also be experiencing writing. I may need accommodations for speech to text when I do SOAP Notes [Subjective, Objective, Assessment, and Plan=SOAP], that’s what we call it, because we have to notate what happened prior during and post the appointment with the client or patient.

Oh, yeah. Well, it sounds like you’ve been really thoughtful about how you’re going to move in to this stage of vision loss. I have a very close friend with macular degeneration and I feel like it is one of those things that her ability to know well in advance allowed her to re-design her job to enable her to continue working. It sounds like you’re going through that same process of anticipating and really thinking mindfully about what is going to be the right fit for you in long term. It sounds like you found out in college, is that right?  Was it hard for you having to reframe for yourself and think, Wait, I guess I’m not going to medical school; I guess I’m going to do something a little different. What was that like, taking in that knowledge and adapting?

It was very helpful because I’ve noticed this aspect of vision loss–this kind of obstruction my vision,  I didn’t know what it was. I had to go to several providers. Thankfully, there was one by UIC who was an ophthalmic pathologist, a doctor who studies diseases of the eye, and for the one appointment they ran my blood sample to a lab in New York that actually codes your DNA, so they can find this particular mutagen that causes degeneration. It took about a year, but they did confirm that what I have is called Stargardt’s disease, which is pretty much central vision loss, and I found it really interesting. It helped define what my condition was, and to ook for any prospective treatments—-nothing at the moment but there’s a lot of research that has been done to be more optimistic about any future treatment which could be possible and available for me. Maybe not within the first year, but they will let me know right away, at least. Surgery is not an option because the retina’s too sensitive to perform any kind of surgery, so they might develop some kind of eye drops or oral medication. But until then I’m just working with specific eyewear. For example, I usually wear a pair of glasses-I don’t have them with me because I use them as needed–to magnify the images in front of me on the computer screen.

Do you feel like you’re in the hands of people who understand? Do you like the care you’re getting–as people who explain and help you think about your choices going forward?

Oh, yeah, definitely. I received a lot of support. I have all the resources available to help support my needs, and my supervisor has known my condition ever since I started, so she’s always been, you know, very kind with me and understanding. She understands, of course, why I would be leaving the company so I can go ahead and pursue massage therapy. And, yeah, everyone’s been really supportive otherwise.

Can I ask where did you go for your massage school and if you like to recommend that school to others thinking about it?

Yeah, I went to Harper College in Palatine, and the program was really amazing because the instructors, they’re so well versed and they’re so different that the instruction was very catered to the background and style of these professors. So there was not a boring day in class. It was such a rewarding program because the classes are much smaller. So, more face time and more personal time like with instructors and your cohort. And what’s really great is that the program–the tuition that’s inclusive with it–waives the licensing exam fee. So, that’s why I want to take the exam “one and done”–hopefully I pass it. I don’t know how many other programs do that. I also like this program because it’s close to where I live.

So, I think it just the program is also just well-structured and the program coordinator, he’s also an instructor, and he’s just–I like him a lot because he’s also studied education, he has a Master’s in Science Education. So it helps having someone who knows actually how to teach courses. Because a lot of professors don’t have teaching degrees.

Absolutely, and they may have zero training in pedagogy, right. That sounds really exciting. And I imagine as somebody who knows the insurance end of it, where you know what kind of insurance is available to people who want to receive massage as a therapeutic service if you’re an oncology patient or hospice patient–you know, actually, that this is something insurance would cover, right? is that true?

I have learned from personal experience of having insurance that medical massages can be covered. And it depends on who your insurance is and the policy that you have. So, what I love about my job is I kind of understand the expectations of providing treatment prior to actually administering it, and if we can foresee coverage based on the patient’s medical policy. So in the same way, places that provide massage therapy services– if they’re contracted with certain insurances that the patients do have, therefore we can know that whether they’re covered, so it’s a more cost-effective experience for the patient who comes in and receives medical massage. As long as it’s classified in that way or massage therapy, depending. At least, that will be the optimal you know, overall healthcare experience for the patient, as long as you know the provider.

Yeah. And your kind of ideal scenario might be to work in a setting like a hospice or an oncology department?

Yeah, definitely a more clinical setting, it can be with health care network like Amita Health.It could be a hospice network like Aurora Health. There’s different places where they’re looking for [medical] massage therapists. The training I received in the program has helped prepare me for a clinical setting, but sometimes, depending on the expectations of that job within that clinical setting, they may want me to have had some of the continuing education hours completed to show that I can work with this demographic. So I know that’s something I need to start doing once I receive my license since I can’t do the continuing ed training until I get my license.

And when does that license exam come for you?

I haven’t registered yet because I’m waiting for disability accommodation to see if they can approve more hours for me because I’ll need that. Once I see that they’ve approved, I can register for the date. Yeah, so hopefully within the next month.

That’s quite soon. Sounds pretty exciting. I always like to ask people generally is there advice that you would give tutors who are interested to pursue a similar path, whether that is moving into being a reimbursement specialist, or moving into becoming someone who does medical massage. Is there any advice you’d want to give people?

To those who have worked at the Writing Center as tutors: First, I want to say, the job and what you’re doing as a tutor, it really has real world application. So those who end up going into corporate healthcare and reimbursement or revenue cycle management, just know that it’s going to require a lot of time, it’s very time consuming, there’s a lot of work to be done. But there is a way to position yourself where you’re able to do everything.. You can do everything. And what’s important in relation to that is time management, especially–prioritizing the work that is demanded of you. It becomes your baby. So, basically accepting and acclimating to a job in which, you know, with responsibility comes. . .there’s a lot of love to it too. There’s a lot of care and responsibility. Everyone sees a corporate [job] as very, you know, hustle-bustle, very strenuous, and that can be true if you let it be.

So oppositely massage therapy–that sounds like the most relaxing job you can have.

Although from the people I’ve met, it takes a lot of physical strength and conditioning! Not as easy as it sounds.

So it’s like the complete opposite type of career where there’s no hustle and bustle of the corporate aspect. No one’s asking for like metrics or dollars from you, necessarily. It’s because you’re just carrying out the therapy for the patient you’re performing on. What is important for that is: 1) communication, and 2) the SOAP notes are very important. So, writing SOAP Notes with accuracy is really important because it can determine a lot of things if a patient is asking for those SOAP notes, because they’re basically medical records. You’re writing medical records that the patient may ask for, or the provider or whoever is the manager of that clinical setting. It could determine whether a patient can be covered; you may need to submit that with an invoice to insurance to get paid. Or it may determine the quality of you as a provider. And in the Writing Center we wrote clinical notes–or, sorry, client notes- all the times.  That’s what reminded me when I was trying to do SOAP notes.  It reminded me of the client [report forms] I used to write. So I felt it was a great precursor once I started working and had to write SOAP notes during my program.

That’s really interesting and in the same way those notes can carry a lot of weight for students who need to show it to a teacher to show evidence that they came. And the way we write them too is meant to give people a reminder of next steps for revision so has a lot of impact on what they might take away from that session and how they might implement your suggestions. I see the parallel! It does make sense.

I feel like there’s another aspect that you described, which is that you wanted to have more direct patient contact. That was something you missed. And I feel like that was something, Shay, that was such a strength of yours in your sessions. Is that something for you is a common thread between tutoring and your next stage of work, this idea of wanting to help in a way that’s very direct and immediate and where you get that immediate feedback of whether it was helpful? Like direct patient or writer contact–do you see that as analogous?

Yeah, because when we’re tutoring, most of the time, it’s one-on-one. So the communication in a one-on-one setting is very parallel to working one-on-one with a client in massage therapy, because all your focus and attention is catered to the person you’re with for that one hour–kind of the same way that we saw the students for the one hour. We’re catering to them, we’re communicating plans of action, and, in the case of massage therapy, plans of treatment, trying them out, then maybe modifications need to be made, and then all of that has to be recorded at the end of the day. So I saw a strong parallel between working as a writing tutor and eventually working as a full time massage therapist.

I really do see that. The more you say it, the more you think it’s a pretty clear analogy!

Depending on the student–if they’re stressed out, we kind of are their therapist. Obviously in massage therapy, I don’t try to be their therapist; [instead] we learned about “the power of okay.” Because [there are times when] we can’t really invest ourselves in a certain topic–if the clients on the table and they’re talking about something that we really shouldn’t be involved in, we can just say, “Okay.”  In the same way a student might maybe say something presumptuous, and you just have to say, “Okay.” And then we divert attention.

I like that phrase, the “Power of Okay.”  Is that something you came up with or it’s out a phrase that’s common to the profession?

One of my instructors.

But it is interesting also that you’re kind of in a para-therapist position, a position where people might reveal something or confide in you, right?  It’s rare for people to have the undivided attention of someone who’s completely there to be a therapeutic presence, and yet [what they need or want] might extend beyond the boundaries of your job. And so that it’s a reassuring idea, that just saying “okay” might suffice. Like maybe they just need a sounding board, and you don’t need to solve that problem, but you can just say okay.

Exactly.

Yeah. I want to check in with you about time but if I had one more question would you have time for that.

Of course I do, thank you.

Sometimes I ask people: what would you wish you could go back and tell your undergraduate self now, with the wisdom of hindsight? Are there any things you wish you had understood as an undergrad that would have helped you get through what can be a very stressful period? But another way to frame it, you could pick: Are there any tips that you would share with tutors about how to survive undergrad, and the post rad transition? Either mental health or self care or any kind of habits or things that you’ve learned for how to both survive undergrad and postgrad and maintain your sanity through hard times?

Definitely you really hit the nail there with self care, because that was something that was super major emphasized in massage therapy, but it’s also something that’s mentioned in my work, because they communicate about mental health awareness. Because burnout is so real. Burnout can happen to a student. Burnout can happen to someone working full time. Burnout can happen to a massage therapist because they are working so many hours because that’s their livelihood. So therefore self care is so important. As a student, we make a lot of time to study. We carve out our time to study. Some of us who work, some of us have families to help take care of. Why can’t we carve out time to take care of ourselves? Or, if for some reason we really don’t have that time, we have to find some aspects of self care in the existing activities that we do. You’re in the shower. Really just mentally tune out from what you just did prior to the shower or what’s gonna happen after the shower.

I like that idea.

Some people, the only time they have for self care is going to sleep. So what can be done in maybe just the five minutes before going to sleep?  Reading a book, turning your electronics off, listening to music. If there’s any way to enhance the existing activities that you do that can become an outlet of self care, then you should be able to do it. If that option is there, go ahead, because we have that opportunity. And I wish I had made more effort as a student to do that for myself, because I really didn’t.

As person who now has a little more maturity and is going back to school, do you have a favorite thing that you do when you don’t have a lot of time but you need to feel some measure of self care?

Yeah, something very simple like breathing and stretching because I do have a sit-down job too. It’s really important–anything that we can do to help with spine health too, because sometimes we’re always leaning or crouched. Just building the habit of adjusting my posture or stretching when I need to between work. I built that as a habit where, okay, I feel a certain way I’m going to get up and stretch for 30 seconds or a minute. Doing that several times throughout the day is going to be better than feeling complacent and just crouch at my computer and do my work and then repose at the end of the day. No,  you can build a habit; you’re not losing anything by taking care of yourself. In fact, of course you’re gaining. You’re benefiting more if you can do these little things throughout the day.

I think that’s that’s very wise, and maybe counter to our instinct, which is just plow through and don’t take a break and go as long and as hard as we can and then crash and lose all productivity at some point.

And a lot of issues are sometimes self-inflicted, based on what I learned in massage therapy. Obviously there are other conditions that can be beyond our control. Like, massage therapy is not going to take care of my eyes, obviously, but it’s going to help maybe make me feel better because I’ll feel more relaxed about one aspect of stress in my life. Sure there is my vision, but if I can take care of myself, then why not be able to do it, even if it’s for just a fraction of a minute, it’s eventually going to be worth it.

Because, actually, probably the worst thing you can do for yourself is nothing. The second worst thing you can do for yourself is the wrong thing, but at least you’re doing something.

Are there any really surprising things you learned in massage school? Like where you thought, Huh, that was a life changing thing. I sometimes also combine this with another question; do you have any favorite books or media or podcasts that you feel like, that has really helped me as a life survival tool?

I don’t have any specific titles to provide. A lot of the reading that I’ve done [lately] was of course textbooks from my program which is more catered to preparing us for the board exam but [I’ll look at] certain YouTube channels or Apple podcasts on massage therapy. What are the current events or current research tied to massage therapy, self care. . . .So, you can keep yourself up to date with your interests because you can either share that information with someone or apply that to yourself. It’s important to look for that information instead of just trying to figure out things on your own. Fact check, of course.

It sounds like your world right now is still reading a lot of the textbooks. But is there anything that sort of bringing you joy these days, anything just for pleasure that you’re doing?

For pleasure. . . I love baking. I post some things that I’ve made on my Instagram page. Anytime I can do volunteer work there’s this amazing organization called, We love u. It is an international organization that helps with emergency disaster relief. I think they just had their 441st like–don’t quote me on the number!–international blood drive. They do environmental cleanups.  So any way I can participate–I love doing volunteer work, I’ve been doing volunteer work since I was in high school. So I found that was one of the most beautiful nonprofit organizations because they’re so driven and motivated by the love for, you know, neighbors and community, especially in times of emergency relief or disaster. They also have an Instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/weloveuusa

I will make sure to put in a link to that so people can find them as well. It sounds like if people are in Chicago, they might even have a Chicago branch. Those are the main things I wanted to ask you, is there anything I haven’t asked you that you feel I should I should tell about this. Anything you want to share?

Um, I don’t know if there’s anything you haven’t asked me that, I feel like we did a lot of catch up in the process too, so I’m glad you got to hear a little about me and that you’re doing well. I really missed you guys a lot.